| 1 |
| Annie, 12:40 (14.06): joins the room |
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| 2 |
| Annie, 12:41 (14.06): leaves the room |
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| 3 |
| Johann, 11:00 (16.06): joins the room |
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| 4 |
| Johann, 11:00 (16.06): leaves the room |
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| 5 |
| Johann, 13:06 (16.06): joins the room |
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| 6 |
| Johann, 13:09 (16.06): Welcome everyone! |
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| 7 |
| Johann, 13:07 (16.06): leaves the room |
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| 8 |
| Johann, 13:26 (16.06): joins the room |
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| 9 |
| | Annie, 13:37 (16.06): joins the room |
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| 10 |
| | | gerirose, 13:37 (16.06): joins the room |
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| 11 |
| | | gerirose, 13:41 (16.06): Hi to everyone too |
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| 12 |
| Johann, 13:54 (16.06): Hi Geri! I think people are just starting to connect @: Message 11: To whole message | | |
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| 13 |
| | | gerirose, 13:55 (16.06): Thanks for the heads up. And nice meeting you. Hope to in person sometime. |
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| 14 |
| | Annie, 13:57 (16.06): Johann, did you do your homework? | |
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| 15 |
| | | gerirose, 13:59 (16.06): Annie, did you? @: Message 14: To whole message |
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| 16 |
| | Annie, 13:59 (16.06): I did some of it - I looked at Circles and Squares again, then reviewed more of the grades 3-5 ones. @: Message 15: To whole message | |
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| 17 |
| | Annie, 14:00 (16.06): I had looked at the Connected Math stuff last week in preparation for a school visit. | |
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| 18 |
| | | gerirose,
14:00 (16.06): excellent! Well, in a little while either you and I can
talk about it or maybe some others will join us @: Message 16: To whole message |
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| 19 |
| | | | martin, 13:58 (16.06): joins the room |
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| 20 |
| | | gerirose, 14:02 (16.06): Hi Martin | |
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| 21 |
| Johann, 14:02 (16.06): Part of it... Martin had to explain that I had to drag the circles and squares to the right @: Message 14: To whole message | | | |
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| 22 |
| | | | martin, 14:02 (16.06): hi there, I'm curious how the chat will be @: Message 20: To whole message |
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| 23 |
| | | gerirose, 14:03 (16.06): do you work at the forum as well? @: Message 22: To whole message | |
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| 24 |
| | | | martin, 14:03 (16.06): I'm a guest researcher there for the summer @: Message 23: To whole message |
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| 25 |
| | | | | Annie 2, 14:01 (16.06): joins the room |
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| 26 |
| | | gerirose,
14:04 (16.06): The pdf file that goes along with the download has
descriptions and teacher notes, sometimes worksheets. @: Message 21: To whole message | | |
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| 27 |
| | | gerirose, 14:05 (16.06): A guest from where researching what? Just trying to figure out the audience. @: Message 24: To whole message | | |
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| 28 |
| | | | | | gene, 14:03 (16.06): joins the room |
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| 29 |
| | | | martin,
14:06 (16.06): I was involved developing ConcertChat at Fraunhofer IPSI
in Darmstadt, Germany. I'm here during summer to work on extensions of
this tool. @: Message 27: To whole message | | |
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| 30 |
| | | gerirose,
14:07 (16.06): OK - to all of you who looked at Circles and Squares,
what was the strategy that you used to figure out the value of the
circle and the square. | | | |
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| 31 |
| | | gerirose, 14:07 (16.06): Thanks for the answer. @: Message 29: To whole message | | | |
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| 32 |
| | | | | | gene, 14:07 (16.06): Nice to have the developer in the same room with me. I finally got on! |
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| 33 |
| | | | martin, 14:07 (16.06): I compared row which had only one difference. @: Message 30: To whole message | | |
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| 34 |
Johann, 14:08 (16.06): I tried many things, this was one of them @:  | | | | | |
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| 35 |
| | | gerirose, 14:08 (16.06): Hi Gene, you just snuck in there! Did you do your homework? | | | |
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| 36 |
| | | | | | gene, 14:09 (16.06): Yes, but poorly. |
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| 37 |
| | Annie, 14:09 (16.06): You can still say something about how you used the tool and what happened. @: Message 36: To whole message | | | | |
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| 38 |
| | | gerirose, 14:10 (16.06): I'm really impressed at how you can copy onto this board. @: Message 34: To whole message | | | |
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| 39 |
| | Annie,
14:10 (16.06): So Johann, is that what led you to "the answer"? Is that
why you shared it? Can you say something about other things you tried?
@: Message 34: To whole message | | | | |
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| 40 |
| Johann, 14:10 (16.06): Great! It is all thanks to Martin's and his colleagues genius! @: Message 38: To whole message | | | | | |
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| 41 |
| | | | | Annie 2, 14:05 (16.06): leaves the room | |
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| 42 |
| | | | martin, 14:11 (16.06): *blush* ;-) @: Message 40: To whole message | |
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| 43 |
| Johann,
14:11 (16.06): Well, this was not necessarily the first thing I did. I
started with pairs with only one change as Martin said. But then when I
had a "theory" I tried this to prove it. The "increment" had to be the
value of the circle, right? @: Message 39: To whole message | | | | |
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| 44 |
| | | gerirose, 14:12 (16.06): What do you all think children will do when faced with the same task? | | |
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| 45 |
| | | | | gene, 14:12 (16.06): I give up, what do children DO? |
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| 46 |
| Johann, 14:13 (16.06): They try to reveal the answer? ;-) @: Message 45: To whole message | | | | |
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| 47 |
| | | | martin, 14:13 (16.06): Beeing no math teacher... I would expect roughly the same we did @: Message 44: To whole message | |
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| 48 |
| | | gerirose, 14:13 (16.06): I don't know! I only know what teachers do - and that is interesting in itself. @: Message 45: To whole message | | |
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| 49 |
| | Annie, 14:14 (16.06): I think some of them will do that for sure! @: Message 46: To whole message | | | |
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| 50 |
| | | gerirose,
14:15 (16.06): Many of the elementary teachers with whom I work do not
have a strong background in mathematics. And they will often fumble for
quite a while trying to figure out 'the answer.' Developing a strategy
for solving other problems is the next step. | | |
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| 51 |
| | | gerirose, 14:15 (16.06): I'm guessing that young children will act much the same. | | |
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| 52 |
| | | gerirose, 14:15 (16.06): Did any of you try other values for square and circle? | | |
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| 53 |
| Johann,
14:16 (16.06): I was wondering if the sketch can generate different
pairs of values. If that is so then maybe the first time you try it you
do a lot of exploration but in successive trials you try to develop an
efficient strategy. @: Message 50: fumble | | | | |
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| 54 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:13 (16.06): joins the room |
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| 55 |
| Johann, 14:16 (16.06): how do you do that? @: Message 52: other values | | | | | |
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| 56 |
| | Annie,
14:17 (16.06): Did you have the experience of anyone who actually
didn't get a strategy on their own, but eventually figured one out
after getting help/hints? @: Message 50: To whole message | | | | |
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| 57 |
| | | gerirose, 14:17 (16.06): I'm a bit hampered here with a very small screen. Annie is helping me out by pasting in the whole page | | | |
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| 58 |
| | | gerirose, 14:18 (16.06): Then I'll answer your question Johann. | | | |
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| 59 |
| Johann, 14:18 (16.06): not a problem @: Message 58: To whole message | | | | | |
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| 60 |
| | | gerirose, 14:19 (16.06): Do you see where it says view/hie/change? Click on that button. @:  | | | |
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| 61 |
| Johann,
14:20 (16.06): I see. you can double click on the actual values and set
your own, but then if you know the numbers (as a student) why would you
try the sketch? Can Sketchpad pick two integers at random? @: Message 60: To whole message | | | | | |
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| 62 |
| | | gerirose,
14:21 (16.06): Annie will reveal what's behind the black box in a
minute. If you are already there, double click on either of the values.
For instance, double click on 3 and type in 10. @:  | | | |
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| 63 |
| | Annie, 14:21 (16.06): It should be here. @:  | | | | |
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| 64 |
| | Annie, 14:21 (16.06): Hi, cynthia. | | | | |
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| 65 |
| | | gerirose, 14:22 (16.06): Hi Cynthia! | | | |
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| 66 |
| | | gerirose, 14:22 (16.06): Not in the sketch as it now. @: Message 61: To whole message | | | |
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| 67 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:22 (16.06): hi ya'll...just watching for now |
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| 68 |
| Johann, 14:22 (16.06): I see. @: Message 66: To whole message | | | | | |
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| 69 |
| | Annie,
14:22 (16.06): If we're partners, you close your eyes while I change
them and hide them, and then you guess. Then you do the same for me. @:
Message 61: To whole message | | | | |
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| 70 |
| | Annie, 14:23 (16.06): A lot of the time, students work in pairs with Sketchpad. | | | | |
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| 71 |
| | Annie, 14:23 (16.06): Or we each change ours, then switch seats with someone else. | | | | |
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| 72 |
| | | gerirose, 14:23 (16.06): Or a pair can change the numbers and move onto the next computer. | | | |
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| 73 |
| | | | martin, 14:23 (16.06): wouldn't students cheat and look up the values? @: Message 71: To whole message | | |
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| 74 |
| | | gerirose, 14:24 (16.06): Once they develop a strategy, it's not very interesting. But until then it's hard work | | | |
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| 75 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:24 (16.06): Question about the software: I assume Java Sketchpad wouldn't support this type of activity |
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| 76 |
| | | gerirose, 14:24 (16.06): Sure, they could cheat. @: Message 73: To whole message | | | |
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| 77 |
| | | gerirose, 14:24 (16.06): can anyone answer that? @: Message 75: To whole message | | | |
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| 78 |
Johann,
14:25 (16.06): Just a software reminder: When you see the reference
thing on the whiteboard (the green square) you will notice that ti
contains an arrow pointer, if you click on it, it will take you to the
point in the history of the evolution of the whiteboard, were the
object that the message was pointing to was in that spot where the
reference is. Hmmm that sounds like a complicated explanation on my
part, sorry. Try it out. @:  | | | | | |
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| 79 |
| | Annie,
14:25 (16.06): Even if you could get it in Java GSP (I'm not sure all
of these features would work), there wouldn't be a way to change the
values. So it would be more static - good for a single try, but not an
easy way to test your strategy. @: Message 75: To whole message | | | | |
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| 80 |
|
| 81 |
| | | gerirose,
14:26 (16.06): Martin, I didn't mean to be glib. The idea is to develop
a strategy. One strategy could be to cheat. But the teacher is there to
encourage others. @: Message 73: To whole message | | | |
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| 82 |
| Johann, 14:26 (16.06): do you mean, sharing Sketchpad within ConcertChat, Cynthia? @: Message 75: this type of activity | | | | | |
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| 83 |
| | | gerirose,
14:27 (16.06): Did anyone notice that the parameters can also be
negative numbers? This makes me think the sketch might be useful for
practice there. | | | |
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| 84 |
| | | | | | cynthia,
14:27 (16.06): I know that excel has some interactive web-based
features which I've played with but don't know well, but it seems like
sketchpad could be likewise |
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| 85 |
| | | gerirose, 14:28 (16.06): Why don't those of you who are interested pull of the sketch titled Balance. | | | |
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| 86 |
| Johann, 14:28 (16.06): interesting! @: Message 83: To whole message | | | | | |
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| 87 |
| | | | martin,
14:28 (16.06): What about letting students entering their guess first
and then reveal the correct solution? That woul make cheating harder @:
Message 81: To whole message | | |
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| 88 |
| | | | | | cynthia,
14:29 (16.06): I just know that if we could put it on the web, it makes
it so much more accessible to kids.What percentage of kids have access
to Sketchpad? What percentage of el teachers have it? Too small |
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| 89 |
| Johann, 14:29 (16.06): will do so. @: Message 85: Balance. | | | | | |
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| 90 |
| | | gerirose, 14:30 (16.06): That's a way of using the sketch I hadn't thought of. @: Message 87: To whole message | | | |
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| 91 |
| | | gerirose, 14:30 (16.06): Thanks! @: Message 87: To whole message | | | |
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| 92 |
| | | | | | cynthia,
14:30 (16.06): Sketchpad has a feature where you can save the sketch as
a java applet and it can play on the web without having sketchpad on
the machine |
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| 93 |
| | | | | | cynthia,
14:31 (16.06): Johann, I thought I'd linked that to your question. Can
you give me a quick direction in how to do that without disturbing
others? |
|
| 94 |
| | | gerirose, 14:31 (16.06): In this sketch, there are many questions that could be asked. @:  | | | |
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| 95 |
| | | gerirose, 14:32 (16.06): But first a warning - the balance beam doesn't work perfectly. | | | |
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| 96 |
| | | gerirose, 14:32 (16.06): One question might be to ask the kids to rank the figures in order of weight. | | | |
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| 97 |
| Johann,
14:32 (16.06): Sure! Double click on the message you want to link to
and make sure that you see a blue line connecting it with the field
where you taype your message. When you submitted they should be
connected. @: Message 93: To whole message | | | | | |
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| 98 |
| Johann, 14:32 (16.06): 2 stars weight as much as one square @: Message 96: To whole message | | | | | |
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| 99 |
| | | | martin, 14:32 (16.06): o.k. solved it :-) | | |
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| 100 |
| | Annie,
14:33 (16.06): is this something we would notice? I have played with
this before,a nd didn't notice any weird behaviour that I can recall.
@: Message 95: To whole message | | | | |
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| 101 |
| | | gerirose, 14:33 (16.06): Gene, have you tried playing with this sketch? Try it! | | | |
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| 102 |
| | | | martin, 14:33 (16.06): if you put an item on different places of the scale, it should change the angle @: Message 100: To whole message | | |
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| 103 |
| | | gerirose, 14:34 (16.06): right on! The print materials give a lot of suggestions of how to use the sketch. @: Message 98: To whole message | | | |
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| 104 |
| | | gerirose, 14:35 (16.06): My question is: Why would one use this rather than a real-time balance beam and manipulatives. | | | |
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| 105 |
| | Annie, 14:34 (16.06): So you mean it shouldn't be so absolute of up, down, neutral? @: Message 102: To whole message | | | | |
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| 106 |
| | | | martin, 14:35 (16.06): well it's not realistic. the physics teacher might complain :-) @: Message 105: To whole message | | |
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| 107 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:36 (16.06): well, who has a balance beam and manipulatives at their disposal |
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| 108 |
| | | | martin, 14:36 (16.06): hm... also the previous sketch could be done with a scale and weights @: Message 104: To whole message | | |
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| 109 |
| | | gerirose, 14:37 (16.06): who just sent this picture? | | | |
|
| 110 |
Johann,
14:37 (16.06): I guess you can do a lot of exploration, balance
different sets and still have no idea about the actual weights, right?
@:  | | | | | |
|
| 111 |
Johann, 14:37 (16.06): Who moved my balance? @:  | | | | | |
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| 112 |
| | Annie, 14:37 (16.06): Doesn't a balance work this way, as opposed to a beam scale? @: Message 106: To whole message | | | | |
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| 113 |
| | | gerirose, 14:37 (16.06): Yes, just relative weights. I moved your balance. sorry! @: Message 110: ion, balance different sets and still | | | |
|
| 114 |
| | | gerirose, 14:38 (16.06): You can put it back. I didn't realize that it would move it for everyone. | | | |
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| 115 |
| | | gerirose, 14:38 (16.06): The physic teacher might complain, but I'm told that children don't once you tell them the issue. @: Message 106: To whole message | | | |
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| 116 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:39 (16.06): this is philosophical balance rather than physical |
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| 117 |
| | | | martin,
14:39 (16.06): I don't know what that one is, but the closer the wieght
is to the middle, the less is it's impact (leverage) @: Message 112: beam scale | | |
|
| 118 |
| | | gerirose,
14:39 (16.06): One other use though is once they have the relative
weight, the teacher can suggest a weight for one of the objects and
then ask the weight of the others. Notice behind the black box, there
are numbers @: Message 110: To whole message | | | |
|
| 119 |
| Johann, 14:39 (16.06): that's o.k. Just a hint to Martin on how sometimes these movements are disconcerting. @: Message 113: To whole message | | | | | |
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| 120 |
| | Annie,
14:40 (16.06): but if a small child sits near the middle of the see
saw, that end of the seesaw will still go down to the bottom, just
slowly. @: Message 117: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 121 |
| Johann, 14:40 (16.06): yep, 100% shared whiteboard @: Message 114: move it for everyone | | | | | |
|
| 122 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:41 (16.06): :Geri, what is the youngest child that works effectively with these, considering the Piaget work? |
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| 123 |
| Johann, 14:40 (16.06): really? @: Message 120: To whole message | | | | | |
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| 124 |
| | Annie,
14:40 (16.06): Anyway, I'm not sure it matters _that_ much in this
case! (And I was talking about the case with only one kid. Obviously
the distance matters with weights on both ends. @: Message 120: To whole message | | | | |
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| 125 |
| | | | martin,
14:41 (16.06): yes. and the farther it is away from the middle the more
likely it will balance the weight of an adult sitting on the other side
@: Message 120: To whole message | | |
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| 126 |
| | | gerirose,
14:42 (16.06): Cynthia - a good question and I don't think there is an
answer yet. These are beta versions of sketches that are being tested
and revised. @: Message 122: To whole message | | | |
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| 127 |
| | | | martin, 14:42 (16.06): well, only the scrolling is private. Each users scrolls individually, that is not shared @: Message 121: To whole message | | |
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| 128 |
| | Annie, 14:43 (16.06): Did anyone look at the Chip Board sketch (7AN_ChipAdd) in the middle school bunch? | | | | |
|
| 129 |
| | | gerirose, 14:44 (16.06): I haven't for a while, but I'll look at it right now. Did you use it in Trenton? | | | |
|
| 130 |
| | Annie, 14:45 (16.06): Yes, I did. I can show it on the whiteboard if that's easier for everyone. @: Message 129: To whole message | | | | |
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| 131 |
| Johann,
14:45 (16.06): Nope. Annie, with my limited knowledge of GSP these
scripts were a bit surprising... would you say that the "geometrical"
support provided is not fully used in these kinds of sketches? I did
one with triangles and in that one I started to see more of what I
thought the power of GSP was. @: Message 128: Chip Board | | | | | |
|
| 132 |
| Johann, 14:46 (16.06): BTW, feel free to delete stuff from the whiteboard since it will be recorded in the history anyway. @: Message 130: To whole message | | | | | |
|
| 133 |
| | Annie,
14:46 (16.06): well, what's happening is that people are using GSP for
things like this where the tool itself is completely hidden from teh
user. @: Message 131: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 134 |
| | | gerirose, 14:46 (16.06): please do @: Message 130: To whole message | | | |
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| 135 |
| | | gerirose, 14:47 (16.06): While Annie is putting put Chip Board, let me say a little more about these sketches. | | | |
|
| 136 |
| | Annie,
14:47 (16.06): So this is pretty straightforward. You drag black and
red chips to the right side of the line and you get a sum. @:  | | | | |
|
| 137 |
| | | gerirose, 14:48 (16.06): OK, I remember this one. | | | |
|
| 138 |
| | | gerirose, 14:48 (16.06): Did you use it in Trenton? | | | |
|
| 139 |
| Johann, 14:48 (16.06): I see. @: Message 133: To whole message | | | | | |
|
| 140 |
| | Annie,
14:48 (16.06): Yup. I shared it with one of the Grade 7 teachers in the
morning - he had just started a unit on integers, and figured this
would be perect. @: Message 138: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 141 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:49 (16.06): Does it tell them the sum or do they type in the sum (I don't remember it) @: Message 136: To whole message |
|
| 142 |
| | Annie, 14:48 (16.06): perfect....so I went back to his class later to watch, and it was cool. | | | | |
|
| 143 |
| | Annie, 14:49 (16.06): It tells them the sum. @: Message 141: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 144 |
| | | gerirose,
14:49 (16.06): Do you know what happened when he used it with his kids.
What were the advantages over using plastic chips | | | |
|
| 145 |
| | Annie,
14:49 (16.06): There is a nice helpful Word cdocument that goes with it
that has a lot of really good questions...like "show two ways to make
-4". | | | | |
|
| 146 |
| | Annie,
14:50 (16.06): I was there for his class when they used it, and it was
cool. The advantage is that the kids can't make a math error, because
the computer does the counting for you. @: Message 144: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 147 |
| | Annie,
14:50 (16.06): The kids went through the handouts. After asking them
for different ways to make zero, it asks them to make a general
statement about how to do it, which is difficult for most kids. | | | | |
|
| 148 |
| | | gerirose,
14:51 (16.06): Another advantage that teachers have put forward--the
kids can't drop the chips or throw them--a real issue in some
classrooms. | | | |
|
| 149 |
| | Annie, 14:51 (16.06): And there are enough of them for everyone. @: Message 148: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 150 |
| | | | martin, 14:51 (16.06): unfortuantely true (my wife is a teacher) @: Message 148: a real issue in some classrooms | | |
|
| 151 |
| | | gerirose,
14:52 (16.06): The background behind these sketches is that they
provide a way for a teacher who doesn't have strong (any) sketchpad
skills to begin using the software | | | |
|
| 152 |
| | Annie, 14:52 (16.06): One question is how to make 0 with 5 chips. | | | | |
|
| 153 |
| | | gerirose, 14:53 (16.06): That's a good one - where it would be nice to drop a chip. | | | |
|
| 154 |
| | | | martin, 14:53 (16.06): :-)) @: Message 153: To whole message | | |
|
| 155 |
| | Annie,
14:53 (16.06): This is a good one that one of the kids came up with. he
called me over and said, "Mine doesn't work", and showed me that. @:  | | | | |
|
| 156 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:53 (16.06): you could have a chopping tool |
|
| 157 |
| | Annie,
14:54 (16.06): A couple of kids came up with the word "even" on their
own - it doens't work because 5 isn't even. Others said things like,
"You can't have the same number of each color", without getting to
"even", but it was a great start! @: Message 153: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 158 |
| Johann, 14:54 (16.06): Very interesting! @: Message 155: To whole message | | | | | |
|
| 159 |
| | Annie, 14:54 (16.06): Any thoughts on what's happening? @: Message 158: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 160 |
| Johann, 14:55 (16.06): What do you mean? I thought the negative discovery was interesting @: Message 159: what's happening? | | | | | |
|
| 161 |
| | | | martin, 14:55 (16.06): it works... @:  | | |
|
| 162 |
| | Annie, 14:55 (16.06): But in that version, there are three blacks and one red, so it should be +2, but it's not. @: Message 160: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 163 |
| | Annie, 14:56 (16.06): Nice, Martin! @: Message 161: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 164 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:56 (16.06): ouch |
|
| 165 |
| Johann, 14:56 (16.06): I see, I missed that... that's what happens when you loose track of the conversation! @: Message 162: To whole message | | | | | |
|
| 166 |
| | | gerirose, 14:58 (16.06): How did you get this to happen? I've missed something also. @:  | | | |
|
| 167 |
| | | | martin, 14:58 (16.06): you can either hide a chip behind the text chip board or you put one chip on another one @: Message 166: To whole message | | |
|
| 168 |
| | | gerirose, 14:59 (16.06): oh! thanks. | | | |
|
| 169 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 14:59 (16.06): so it isn't a mathematical error in the software, it's in the interface |
|
| 170 |
| | Annie, 14:59 (16.06): right, so here's what the kid did, just as Martin said. @:  | | | | |
|
| 171 |
| | | gerirose, 15:00 (16.06): For me the overriding questions are: | | | |
|
| 172 |
| | Annie,
15:00 (16.06): I don't consider it an error at all. I thought it was
really clever! Teh kid was very proud of himself, and we put it back
(after I had dragged things) so he could do it to his teacher as well.
@: Message 169: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 173 |
| | | gerirose,
15:00 (16.06): Are these premade sketches a good way to continue? Will
they help the children understand mathematics better | | | |
|
| 174 |
| | | | martin, 15:00 (16.06): yeah and that one definitely learnt what he was intended to @: Message 172: To whole message | | |
|
| 175 |
| | | gerirose, 15:01 (16.06): And if so, where should we use them and how | | | |
|
| 176 |
| | Annie, 15:01 (16.06): Exactly! Bonus points for be an intelligent troublemaker! @: Message 174: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 177 |
| | | gerirose,
15:02 (16.06): Cythia's right that many of them can be made into java
sketches - but not all of them. But using them gives the students an
entrance into sketchpad tools and thus makes it easier for them to move
on to other blank screen types of investigations. | | | |
|
| 178 |
| | | gerirose, 15:02 (16.06): But aren @: Message 176: To whole message | | | |
|
| 179 |
| | | gerirose, 15:03 (16.06): But aren't trouble makers the neatest kind of students!!! | | | |
|
| 180 |
| | Annie, 15:03 (16.06): Only the clever ones who are being at least somewhat on topic. @: Message 179: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 181 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 15:03 (16.06): Especially on this kind where they could easily create more circles with the circle tool. @: Message 177: To whole message |
|
| 182 |
| | | gerirose, 15:04 (16.06): Shall we look at another sketch? | | | |
|
| 183 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 15:04 (16.06): how would you asess this? That was one of the questions we were going to discuss |
|
| 184 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 15:04 (16.06): can you use the tool itself to assess |
|
| 185 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 15:05 (16.06): assess learning, i mean |
|
| 186 |
| | Annie,
15:05 (16.06): This is an interesting segue, in a way, into tomorrow's
conversation about Flash. These sketches essentially do things that
could be done in Flash (if you knew flash) in many instances. But since
some of us don't know Flash, this is a way we can write tools! @: Message 173: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 187 |
| Johann,
15:06 (16.06): But then, as Cynthia said earlier, Flash runs on almost
any browser so it is more accessible than a sketch that needs GSP to
run. A benefit of using GSP might be that as kids (and teachers) become
familiar with the tool they may eventually create their own sketches?
@: Message 186: write tools! | | | | | |
|
| 188 |
| | | gerirose, 15:08 (16.06): I agree - and that's one of reasons I want to use these. @: Message 187:
benefit of using GSP might be that as kids (and teachers) become
familiar with the tool they may eventually create their own sketches? | | | |
|
| 189 |
| | Annie,
15:08 (16.06): The other "benefit" (it has pros and cons) is that in
Flash, or java, the author has more control over what kids can and
can't do (show/hide/change/etc). @: Message 187: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 190 |
| | Annie, 15:08 (16.06): But the expose to the tool is probably a fair tradeoff in many cases. @: Message 189: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 191 |
| | | gerirose,
15:09 (16.06): These sketches are also a very good way for many
somewhat tech-phobic teachers to gain entry into the dynamic math
world. @: Message 188: To whole message | | | |
|
| 192 |
| | | gerirose,
15:10 (16.06): assessment is a good question. I don't have the answer
today beyond using them as we would any kind of assessment. @: Message 184: To whole message | | | |
|
| 193 |
| | | | | gene,
15:11 (16.06): My understanding is that the tech-phobic teachers could
get on board with the given sketches and the transition to doing their
own would be much easier than in flash. Right? | |
|
| 194 |
| Johann,
15:11 (16.06): I agree, assessment is essential. I supposed you could
have an "explorarion" sketch and then another one just for assessment
or even a paper/pencil activity. @: Message 192: To whole message | | | | | |
|
| 195 |
| | Annie,
15:11 (16.06): I can see using it to support a student as they try to
explain their strategy to you. So having them use the Circles and
Squares tool and to verbalize their choices as they do it, in front of
you, as a first step toward really communicating their strategy. @: Message 184: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 196 |
| | | gerirose,
15:13 (16.06): I can't speak to Flash. But I do know that teachers come
on board and then begin to write their own activities. @: Message 193: To whole message | | | |
|
| 197 |
| | | gerirose, 15:13 (16.06): in sketchpad | | | |
|
| 198 |
| | | gerirose,
15:14 (16.06): Does anyone have a favorite sketch from the very small
finite set at our disposal that you want to look at? If not, I can
suggest some. | | | |
|
| 199 |
| | | | martin,
15:15 (16.06): A critical question: Do teachers have time and are they
willing to develop their own sketches or are they happy to find
pre-made sketches they can simply use? @: Message 196: To whole message | | |
|
| 200 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 15:16 (16.06): we could look at one that is java sketchpad to see the power of that.I'll put the url in a textbox |
|
| 201 |
| | Annie,
15:16 (16.06): Many teachers are happy to use pre-made sketches. And in
fact, I think they're often scared to use Sketchpad because they don't
know it well enough...but then they discover that someone has done a
lot of the work for them and they don't really need to know much
Sketchpad in order to do math. @: Message 199: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 202 |
| | | gerirose,
15:18 (16.06): This is my experience as well. I have a group of
teachers right now - as we talk - developing their own little sketches
after a six-week online sketchpad course which followed a several week
intro to these very sketches. @: Message 201: To whole message | | | |
|
| 203 |
| | | | | gene,
15:20 (16.06): Too bad we didn't get any practicing elementary school
teachers in this conversation. I would like to know their reactions to
the ideas. | |
|
| 204 |
| | Annie,
15:20 (16.06): In fact, in the last year+, I've changed the way I do
Sketchpad workshops. We no longer start off by playing with the
software and learning to construct a square. Instead, we do a couple of
math activities, precisely so they can get an idea of how rich the math
can be even when you don't @: Message 201: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 205 |
| | Annie, 15:20 (16.06): "know" the tool well. | | | | |
|
| 206 |
| | | gerirose,
15:21 (16.06): I agree. But we have some good people here. The volume
java sketch that Annie referenced is one that 'my' elementary teachers
were just playing with. @: Message 203: To whole message | | | |
|
| 207 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 15:21 (16.06): Do you have that intro on the web anywhere Annie that we could see? |
|
| 208 |
| | Annie,
15:21 (16.06): Well, frankly there aren't a huge number of them!
Hopefully if we summarize this in Math Tools on the discussion boards,
then others from the wider community will be able to participate. @: Message 203: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 209 |
| | Annie, 15:21 (16.06): You mean the activities that I start with in the workshop? @: Message 207: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 210 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 15:22 (16.06): yes |
|
| 211 |
| | | gerirose, 15:22 (16.06): For elementary teachers I actually begin with Circles and Squares and Balance. | | | |
|
| 212 |
| | | gerirose, 15:23 (16.06): Then move onto others of the 'more normal type' | | | |
|
| 213 |
| | Annie,
15:23 (16.06): The second one I use is a variation of this (I wrote
this version, but Key has it in their Exploring Geometry book, and
that's the one I use in workshops):
http://mathforum.org/mathtools/tool/18341/ @: Message 207: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 214 |
| | | | | | cynthia,
15:23 (16.06): Of course, I wouldn't want the box problem applet to
replace having the kids actually make boxes where we think the chips
applet could replace using plastic chips, or not? |
|
| 215 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 15:24 (16.06): thanks. Annie @: Message 213: To whole message |
|
| 216 |
| | Annie,
15:24 (16.06): The first is a pre-algebra (or earlier) activity that
starts with five points on a coordinate plane. Students measure their
coordinates (all are integers), and then drag them so that certain
relationships between the x and y coordinates hold true. @: Message 213: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 217 |
| | Annie,
15:25 (16.06): r example, "the x-coordinate equals the y-coordinate".
"The x-coordinate is twice the y-coordinate." "The y-coordinate is one
less than half the x-coordinate." | | | | |
|
| 218 |
| | | gerirose,
15:25 (16.06): I think the chips applet/sketch are better than the
plastic chips. But the plastic chips are more readily available. So
there is no reason not to continue using both. I often urge the
teachers to bring plastic manipulatives with them to the labs so that
the students can see and use them side by side when appropriate. @: Message 214: To whole message | | | |
|
| 219 |
| | Annie,
15:26 (16.06): And then they do that same thing backwards - the sketch
givees them the five points in certain locations, and they have to
write the sentence that describes the relationship. @: Message 217: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 220 |
| | Annie,
15:28 (16.06): I don't think you should get rid of or stop using any of
the physical manipulatives. The kids needs to touch stuff like that.
But this is a great "other" way to do the same thing, without many of
the attendant hassles. @: Message 218: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 221 |
| | | | | | cynthia, 15:29 (16.06): As a Math Tools question, do you catalog the Java Sketchpad as Sketchpad, Java applet, or both? @: Message 213: / |
|
| 222 |
| | | gerirose,
15:29 (16.06): Some of the sketches in the set are my least favorites.
I wonder if any of you tried out some and had that feeling. | | | |
|
| 223 |
| | Annie, 15:30 (16.06): We've been doing both. I pointed you to the java, but they should be noted as being related resources. @: Message 221: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 224 |
| | | gerirose, 15:30 (16.06): We need both because as Cynthia points out, Sketchpad isn't in every school. @: Message 221: To whole message | | | |
|
| 225 |
| | | gerirose, 15:31 (16.06): Anybody want to take on this question? | | | |
|
| 226 |
| | | gerirose, 15:31 (16.06): That is, least favorite sketches in the series @: Message 225: To whole message | | | |
|
| 227 |
| | Annie,
15:31 (16.06): Agreen. Any time you can do it in both, you should
provide both. And that's what I've been doing with my stuff (not that
there's tons of it yet!). @: Message 225: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 228 |
| | | | | gene,
15:33 (16.06): Folks, I've got to do a few things before catching my
train. Thanks for doing this, Geri. A shame we didn't get teachers from
Tool Fest. You were shackled with professors, software developers and
other awful types! | |
|
| 229 |
| | Annie, 15:34 (16.06): Gene, we're all teachers in our own way. @: Message 228: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 230 |
| Johann, 15:34 (16.06): Right! @: Message 228: awful types! | | | | | |
|
| 231 |
| | | gerirose, 15:34 (16.06): All people I love and adore. Hope you see you sometime Gene @: Message 228: To whole message | | | |
|
| 232 |
| | | gerirose, 15:34 (16.06): OK - everyone else - why don't you open Ghost Paths? | | | |
|
| 233 |
| | | | | gene, 15:32 (16.06): leaves the room | |
|
| 234 |
| | | gerirose, 15:35 (16.06): Tell me what you think? | | |
|
| 235 |
| | Annie, 15:36 (16.06): Much "cuter" than I generally expect from Sketchpad! @: Message 234: To whole message | | | |
|
| 236 |
| | | gerirose, 15:38 (16.06): cute? My question is - would this be preferable to showing the kids the segment, ray and line tools? | | |
|
| 237 |
| Johann, 15:38 (16.06): is the idea of "hidden path" something you would like kids to learn? | | | | |
|
| 238 |
| Johann, 15:39 (16.06): I mean, is it useful for Sketchpad's sake or as a math concept? @: Message 237: hidden path | | | | |
|
| 239 |
| | Annie,
15:39 (16.06): I think you want kids to notice things like, "Doug can
keep going off the edge of the screen, but Linda gets stuck. @: Message 237: To whole message | | | |
|
| 240 |
| | Annie, 15:39 (16.06): and even the fact that they both travel in straight lines.. @: Message 239: To whole message | | | |
|
| 241 |
| | | gerirose, 15:40 (16.06): I see this for very little ones - say grade 1 or 2. But not grade 3 or higher. Any thoughts? @: Message 240: To whole message | | |
|
| 242 |
| | Annie,
15:41 (16.06): You want them to notice _anything_ and find their own
vocabulary for it. We tend to teach them "segment" "ray" "line" before
they even have htis idea that there are things (whatever they're
called) that stop on both ends, and things that keep going one way but
not the other, and still other things that keep going in both
directions. | | | |
|
| 243 |
| | | gerirose, 15:41 (16.06): Compare this Sketch (Ghost Paths) with RooBooGoo | | |
|
| 244 |
| | | gerirose, 15:42 (16.06): Good comment. Thanks @: Message 242: To whole message | | |
|
| 245 |
| | | | | cynthia, 15:42 (16.06): watch it annie, you're getting real close to one of my pet peeves and I may start preaching |
|
| 246 |
| | | gerirose, 15:42 (16.06): What peev? @: Message 245: To whole message | | |
|
| 247 |
| | | | | cynthia,
15:42 (16.06): ok, i am that the words themselves become more important
to teachers than the things the mathematical objects that they represent |
|
| 248 |
| | | | | cynthia,
15:43 (16.06): yes, it's important that kids know what to call it so we
can all talk about the thing, but it's way more important imho, that
they understand the mathematical concept |
|
| 249 |
| | | gerirose, 15:43 (16.06): Totally agree - but isn't that what Annie is saying Ghost Paths could help with? @: Message 247: To whole message | | |
|
| 250 |
| | | | | cynthia, 15:43 (16.06): yes, i'm saying exactly to annie |
|
| 251 |
| | | gerirose, 15:44 (16.06): Anyway, compare this sketch to Ghost Paths | | |
|
| 252 |
| | Annie, 15:44 (16.06): But it's WAY easier to teach the words than to bother with that conceptual understanding stuff... @: Message 248: To whole message | | | |
|
| 253 |
| | | | | cynthia, 15:44 (16.06): once again, exactly |
|
| 254 |
| | | gerirose,
15:45 (16.06): I have a teacher right now who keeps insisting that her
students have to understand the concepts before she can let them use
Sketchpad!!!! @: Message 252: To whole message | | |
|
| 255 |
| | | | | cynthia, 15:45 (16.06): like circle: a set of points in a plane a given distance from a given point |
|
| 256 |
| | Annie, 15:45 (16.06): and how is she actually going to do that? Does she have a plan? @: Message 254: To whole message | | | |
|
| 257 |
| | | | | cynthia, 15:46 (16.06): ok, i warned ya'll this was a pet peeve, I'll shut up :-) |
|
| 258 |
| | | gerirose, 15:46 (16.06): Funny, I was just struggling about what to do with that exact phrase today in a text I am editing! @: Message 255: To whole message | | |
|
| 259 |
| | | gerirose,
15:47 (16.06): Sure she does. She'll teach it to them! They'll learn
all the definitions and then they can explore to see if they hold up!!!
@: Message 256: To whole message | | |
|
| 260 |
| | Annie,
15:47 (16.06): Everytime I do a sketchpad workshop and say something
like, "Okay, everybody construct a line on the screen and measure its
slope", at least one (usually) more teacher will do a segment instead
of a line. | | | |
|
| 261 |
| | Annie, 15:47 (16.06): the tried and true, eh? @: Message 259: To whole message | | | |
|
| 262 |
| | | gerirose, 15:47 (16.06): Absolutely. @: Message 260: To whole message | | |
|
| 263 |
| | | | | cynthia, 15:48 (16.06): of course, they understand, i told them over and over |
|
| 264 |
| | | gerirose,
15:49 (16.06): But I have 18 other teachers who are 'wowing' the power
of Sketchpad for their students to explore before they are (or instead
of) drilled with vocab. | | |
|
| 265 |
| | Annie,
15:49 (16.06): One complaint about RooBooGoo is that while they've
hidden the tabs at the bottom, the page names still show up at the top
of the page, thus spoiling some discovery for me. @: Message 251: To whole message | | | |
|
| 266 |
| | | gerirose,
15:50 (16.06): That's true. I guess we could go in and just change the
page names to 1, 2, 3, before using the sketch. @: Message 265: To whole message | | |
|
| 267 |
| | | gerirose, 15:50 (16.06): Hadn't thought of that before. | | |
|
| 268 |
| | | gerirose, 15:51 (16.06): So where are we? Anyone want to say what happened for her/him today? | | |
|
| 269 |
| Johann, 15:51 (16.06): I certainly saw a different face of GSP...very interesting for the lower grades | | | | |
|
| 270 |
| | | | | cynthia,
15:52 (16.06): I love the concertchat.Just having the opportunity to
chat about math and teaching math is a very fun way to spend a couple
of hours. I love learning more about Sketchpad, and of course I love
all ya'll/. :-) |
|
| 271 |
| | | gerirose, 15:53 (16.06): Are Johann and Martin joining us a week from Sunday at William Penn High School in Philadelphia? | | |
|
| 272 |
| | Annie,
15:53 (16.06): I like talking about Sketchpad with folks, of course,
and sharing things. And I had never looked at RooBooGoo that closely
before! @: Message 268: To whole message | | | |
|
| 273 |
| | | gerirose,
15:54 (16.06): And I always learn new ways to look at Sketchpad and
math teaching when talking with y'all. You've given me some very good
questions to think about. | | |
|
| 274 |
| | | | | cynthia, 15:54 (16.06): They are very welcome, of course. @: Message 271: To whole message |
|
| 275 |
| | | gerirose, 15:55 (16.06): Thank you everyone. | | |
|
| 276 |
| | | | | cynthia, 15:55 (16.06): thank you, Geri, it was great. |
|
| 277 |
| | | gerirose, 15:55 (16.06): See some of you very soon. | | |
|
| 278 |
| | | | | cynthia, 15:55 (16.06): Yes, I'll be talking to you about NECC |
|
| 279 |
| Johann, 15:56 (16.06): Thanks a lot! | | | | |
|
| 280 |
| | | gerirose,
15:56 (16.06): I'm off to the beach on Saturday morning for a week, so
call my cell phone. And I'll try to get on email at least once a day. | | |
|
| 281 |
| | Annie,
15:56 (16.06): Hey, Geri, could I impose upon you to post a brief
summary to the discussion board in Math tools, especially if I tell you
which one to post to? I would follow up your post with a link to the
transcript. | | | |
|
| 282 |
| | | gerirose, 15:57 (16.06): You'll follow my post with a link? Or you'll tell me how? | | |
|
| 283 |
| | | gerirose, 15:57 (16.06): I can try to do it later tonight. Unfortunately I'm leaving the house very soon for a funeral! | | |
|
| 284 |
| | Annie, 15:58 (16.06): I'll follow your post with a link. | | | |
|
| 285 |
| | | gerirose, 15:59 (16.06): OK | | |
|
| 286 |
| | | | martin,
15:59 (16.06): sorry, I was not following the conversation for some
time (just looked it up). I very much liked the experience. Thanks to
all! | |
|
| 287 |
| Johann, 16:00 (16.06): How do you like ConcertChat, Geri? @: Message 285: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 288 |
| | | | martin,
16:00 (16.06): If you have any idea what to change or to improve in the
ConcertChat Tool, just let me know (wessner AT ipsi.fraunhofer.de) | |
|
| 289 |
| | | gerirose,
16:01 (16.06): I'm quite taken by it. I like being able to post
graphics and text and also to reference the response. I just hate my
small 12" screen. @: Message 287: To whole message | | |
|
| 290 |
| | Annie,
16:01 (16.06): Everyone who was here should head on over to Math Tools
and rate at least one of the tools we used today (such as Circles and
Squares). | | | |
|
| 291 |
| Johann, 16:01 (16.06): Sure do, boss. @: Message 290: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 292 |
| | | gerirose, 16:01 (16.06): Ciao! | | |
|
| 293 |
| | Annie, 16:01 (16.06): Circles and Squares: http://mathforum.org/mathtools/tool/15554/ | | | |
|
| 294 |
| Johann, 16:01 (16.06): By, Geri. Thanks for your feedback. @: Message 292: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 295 |
| | | | martin, 16:01 (16.06): bye! | |
|
| 296 |
| | Annie, 16:02 (16.06): (Hey, Martin, can you make the links clickable?) | | | |
|
| 297 |
| Johann, 16:02 (16.06): Here is where copying text from messages would be a good thing, Martin @: Message 293: To whole message & Message 295: To whole message | | | | |
|
| 298 |
| | | gerirose, 15:59 (16.06): leaves the room | | |
|
| 299 |
| | Annie, 16:02 (16.06): I dont' want to copy and paste. I want to click! @: Message 297: To whole message | | |
|
| 300 |
| | | martin, 16:02 (16.06): good idea! @: Message 296: To whole message | |
|
| 301 |
| | | martin, 16:03 (16.06): I agree (had the problem myself right now) @: Message 297: To whole message | |
|
| 302 |
| Johann, 16:03 (16.06): Well, now you are getting picky! Where would you like it to load... in your PDA? @: Message 299: To whole message | | | |
|
| 303 |
| Johann, 16:03 (16.06): ;-) | | | |
|
| 304 |
| | | martin, 16:03 (16.06): I think the standard browser is fine @: Message 302: To whole message | |
|
| 305 |
| Johann, 16:03 (16.06): jk @: Message 304: To whole message | | | |
|
| 306 |
| Johann, 16:03 (16.06): See you all around! | | | |
|
| 307 |
| Johann, 16:01 (16.06): leaves the room | | | |
|
| 308 |
| Annie, 16:04 (16.06): bye, guys. | | |
|
| 309 |
| | martin, 16:04 (16.06): see you :-) even face to face | |
|
| 310 |
| | martin, 16:02 (16.06): leaves the room | |
|
| 311 |
| Annie, 16:07 (16.06): Bye, Cynthia! | |
|
| 312 |
| Annie, 16:05 (16.06): leaves the room | |
|
| 313 |
| cynthia, 16:21 (16.06): leaves the room |
|
| 314 |
| Craig, 16:35 (16.06): joins the room |
|
| 315 |
| Craig, 16:35 (16.06): leaves the room |
|
|
