Tool Fest Fathom

Whiteboard

No.

Message

Annie, 12:39 (14.06): joins the room

Annie, 12:41 (14.06): leaves the room

Annie, 12:30 (15.06): joins the room

Annie, 12:43 (15.06): leaves the room

gerirose, 14:09 (15.06): joins the room

Bill, 14:39 (15.06): joins the room

cynthia, 14:41 (15.06): joins the room

cynthia, 14:44 (15.06): Hello,

Bill, 14:41 (15.06): Hi. Not ready to chat yet. Soon.

Beth, 14:49 (15.06): joins the room

gerirose, 14:52 (15.06): I'm just lurking since I didn't do my homework. I just wanted to say hi to Bill.

Bill, 14:47 (15.06): Hi Geri!

Beth, 14:56 (15.06): Hello everyone. I will be joining you for this session. hi Geri, Cynthia and Bill

gerirose, 14:54 (15.06): Hi Beth! Warming up for your trip to Fathom Summer School?

Bill, 14:48 (15.06): You've still got 10 minutes! And it doesn't take that long to do! @: Message 11: To whole message

Beth, 14:57 (15.06): I can not wait!!!

gerirose, 14:55 (15.06): I'll be out there at the end of your week.

Bill, 14:49 (15.06): Can you share what you found with Excel? @:

cynthia, 14:56 (15.06): Should I start a new textbox to answer questions? @: Message 11: To whole message

Bill, 14:50 (15.06): Use the text box to share your writeup.

Bill, 14:51 (15.06): Use messages to respond to questions.

Bill, 14:52 (15.06): Cynthia, is this yours? If so, can we erase it to make room for writeups? @:

cynthia, 14:59 (15.06): Oh, well I was going to write up what I got using Excel, shall I not do that?

Bethany, 14:56 (15.06): joins the room

Bill, 14:53 (15.06): No, please do! And it will go nicely in your text box. @: Message 23: To whole message

Johann, 14:58 (15.06): joins the room

Bethany, 15:01 (15.06): Greetings everyone. I almost missed out, using the chat from yesterday wondering where everybody was!

Bill, 14:55 (15.06): Was this using Fathom's model tool or a scatterplot with regression line? @:

Beth, 15:04 (15.06): the least squares line from Fathom @:

Beth, 15:05 (15.06): with all the data

Bethany, 15:03 (15.06): Here is my response to the question

cynthia, 15:04 (15.06): Now I'm having trouble typing in that textbox

Bethany, 15:04 (15.06): hmm, that didn't work like I thought it would. @: Message 31: To whole message

Bethany, 15:04 (15.06): I meant to point over to the white board

Bill, 14:58 (15.06): Looks like your figured it out! @: Message 33: To whole message

Bill, 14:59 (15.06): To point, you have to first "draw" a reference rectangle with Reference tool. @: Message 34: To whole message

Johann, 15:06 (15.06): Hi, Bill. I am here to help you with any technical questions about ConcertChat if you need @: Message 36: To whole message

Bethany, 15:06 (15.06): like so? @:

Bill, 15:00 (15.06): Yup. @: Message 38: To whole message

Bill, 15:00 (15.06): Excellent. I'll leave those to you, then. @: Message 37: To whole message

cynthia, 15:07 (15.06): Johann, I have a question. I can't get back into the textbox that I started. Does it close or do I ned to do something different?

Gene, 15:05 (15.06): joins the room

Beth, 15:10 (15.06): WOW. I like the Add Filter command. Bethany did you paste the January months in another list? then teh same for the CO2 levels for January?

Johann, 15:08 (15.06): Which textbox is that, Cynthia. Can you create a reference to it? @: Message 41: To whole message

cynthia, 15:08 (15.06): the "I am a novice" one

Bethany, 15:08 (15.06): No, I didn't paste into another list Beth. I just added the filter and graphed.

Bill, 15:03 (15.06): Did you find that these varied from one to the next? @:

cynthia, 15:09 (15.06): Great thanks

Johann, 15:09 (15.06): I see. I think it was just a matter of the background color, Cynthia. Try it not that I made it green. @: Message 45: To whole message

gerirose, 15:07 (15.06): leaves the room

Bill, 15:05 (15.06): And, did you get a different answer? @:

Gene, 15:11 (15.06): Hiya, Bill, and thanks for coming. Here's a photo of Mona Loa. Does this excuse my not doing my homework? (I have a new project with 4 Swarthmore students (you can imagine how that must be...)

Bill, 15:06 (15.06): Is this really Mauna Loa? If so, the observatory must be one heck of a place? @:

Bill, 15:07 (15.06): Johann, Can we keep adding stuff at the bottom or do we have to erase?

Gene, 15:13 (15.06): Got it from the web, Bill, must be true.

Bill, 15:07 (15.06): Like the whales in Lake Michigan? @: Message 55: To whole message

Bill, 15:09 (15.06): The next thing I would like to do is to have people make screen captures of some of there Fathom work to share with us. But we'll have to hope Johann can tell us how to get more whiteboard space.

Johann, 15:16 (15.06): Well, there is a creative way of doing that. Bascially we will have to rearrange some of the objects we have so as to make space. Do you want me to do that? @: Message 57: more whiteboard space.

Bill, 15:10 (15.06): Sure, give it a try. @: Message 58: To whole message

Johann, 15:17 (15.06): O.K. Don't worry if you see stuff disappearing... it is all archived.

Bethany, 15:18 (15.06): Hey folks, I'll be taking an interlude, we have to do a fire drill.

Bill, 15:12 (15.06): Yikes! Come back when you can. @: Message 61: To whole message

ihor, 15:17 (15.06): joins the room

Bill, 15:14 (15.06): OK, now that we've got some space, please arrange the chat window and Fathom (or Excel) so you can see it. Use the screenshot tool to capture something and paste it in (as Cynthia has already done).

Beth, 15:22 (15.06): How do you capture the entire fathom screen?

Bill, 15:14 (15.06): Don't try for the whole screen, just a portion of it. @: Message 65: To whole message

Beth, 15:22 (15.06): OK

Johann, 15:20 (15.06): This is just my image from Excel, but everyone can take snapshots of Fathom and paste theirs here for discussion. To create a snapshot use the camera icon. You will have to have ConcertChat and Fathom visible on your screen. @:

Annie, 15:20 (15.06): joins the room

Beth, 15:25 (15.06): I can not seem to paste my picture

steve, 15:21 (15.06): joins the room

Johann, 15:24 (15.06): If you click on the camera, select a section of your screen and then click on the whiteboard area your image should be pasted. Anybody else having trouble with that? @: Message 70: To whole message

Bill, 15:19 (15.06): Here is the graph that appears in the original data set. @:

Johann, 15:25 (15.06): BTW, this displays only February Datapoints @: Message 73: To whole message &

Bill, 15:21 (15.06): This is a good question. Anybody have any thoughts? @:

Annie, 15:28 (15.06): Hi, folks. Sorry to be late. I won't paste in my whole explanation, since I got a little longwinded. Basically I filtered the graph so that it only included September, did a least squares line on that data, then dragged to the appropriate point in 2005, and then 2004 (to match the available data). @:

cynthia, 15:29 (15.06): Wjat

cynthia, 15:30 (15.06): What's the probability two people here have the same birth months Annie? I'm September too. :-)

Beth, 15:33 (15.06): Help. can not capture my graph from fathom.

Bill, 15:25 (15.06): One way of looking at it is that the more of the data your model accounts for, the more answers you can get from it. So, while it's true you can get a prediction for a given month with the filtered, data, the model with the sine allows you to predict for any value, even half months. @: Message 75: To whole message

Bill, 15:26 (15.06): Does anyone have a graph that shows the sine wave plus the linear trend?

ihor, 15:33 (15.06): Cynthia, its about 10% :-)

cynthia, 15:32 (15.06): Hi Ihor :-)

Annie, 15:33 (15.06): I sort of do....though my graph is scaled strangely. I'll get it. @: Message 81: To whole message

ihor, 15:34 (15.06): Hi.

Johann, 15:33 (15.06): Beth, do you have your two windows (Fathom and ConcertChat) side by side? If you minimize ConcertChat or switch applications it won't work. @: Message 79: To whole message

ihor, 15:35 (15.06): Am I impacting other peoples screens when I move things on the whiteboard?

Bill, 15:28 (15.06): Cool! Now, got a graph that shows the sine wave going through the data points? @: Message 84: To whole message

Annie, 15:34 (15.06): So that just shows a very small slice of it, with the least squares line and my function. @:

Annie, 15:34 (15.06): Well, sure, if I scroll to the left far enough. Hang on a sec. @: Message 88: To whole message

Bill, 15:29 (15.06): Yup. @: Message 87: To whole message

Johann, 15:35 (15.06): Yes, the Whiteboard is shared, so everyone sees what everyone does. @: Message 91: To whole message

Annie, 15:37 (15.06): So there it is. It's not perfect, but you get the idea. @: Message 88: To whole message

Bill, 15:31 (15.06): About 5 people sent me writeups, and they were _very_ well done! But one interesting thing is that everyone's predictions were single numbers. No one included a range. Why do you suppose that was?

Annie, 15:38 (15.06): My second prediction was a range. @: Message 94: To whole message

Bill, 15:32 (15.06): Does it bother you that the points don't look like they are perfectly on the sine wave? @: Message 93: To whole message

Annie, 15:38 (15.06): And I did that because I zoomed the graph in so far (the first sine one I postd, without the data) that there simply was a large range for 2004.7. @: Message 95: To whole message

Bill, 15:32 (15.06): Sorry, I must have missed that. @: Message 95: To whole message

Annie, 15:38 (15.06): Yes, but time was running out, so I decided I was close enough for now. @: Message 96: To whole message

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Annie, 15:39 (15.06): There was a lot to read :-) I wrote, in my second part, "I zoomed way in (see above) and found that the values for 2004.7 range from 371.70 down to 370.95." @: Message 98: s

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Bill, 15:33 (15.06): I find these "wrinkles" in the data really fascinating. @: Message 99: To whole message

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Bill, 15:34 (15.06): Uh, oh. Annie and Bill are dominating the conversation ...

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Annie, 15:40 (15.06): Presumably there is a way to get it to give me 2004.75, instead of just .7. I didn't try to figure it out. The fact remained that the prediction didn't get any better than the linear model. @: Message 100: To whole message

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ihor, 15:42 (15.06): Its fun watching you have fun, Bill

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cynthia, 15:40 (15.06): So why *should* the data fit the sine wave?

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Annie, 15:41 (15.06): Gosh, that sounds like science instead of math :-) @: Message 105: To whole message

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cynthia, 15:41 (15.06): perfectly

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steve, 15:42 (15.06): I guess I assumed that we were finding lines of best fit and thus the predictions were assumed to be a range, for which the number offered was a stand-in.

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steve, 15:42 (15.06): In what situations is it worht making it explicit?

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Bill, 15:37 (15.06): Challenge: Show us a graph using the data from Mauna2003 (Fathom sample document) that includes your model; i.e. superimpose your equation on top of the larger set of data.

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steve, 15:43 (15.06): and what would be learned in the process of trying to define the range

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Bill, 15:38 (15.06): Basically, a single number is nearly useless because you have no idea how accurate it is. @: Message 109: To whole message

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Bill, 15:38 (15.06): First question is, "Doe we have any _way_ to find it out given the data we have? @: Message 111: To whole message

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Bethany, 15:45 (15.06): Greetings I'm back!

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Bethany, 15:45 (15.06): 11 flights of stairs later

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Beth, 15:48 (15.06): Could we find a Confidence interval on the slope of the linear reg line then create two equations? I still can not get my graphs to show.

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Bethany, 15:46 (15.06): What is a good way of determining the range for a prediction?

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Bill, 15:40 (15.06): Can you figure out how to do that in Fathom? @: Message 116: To whole message

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Johann, 15:48 (15.06): Beth, another option for importing graphics is to take a picture of your Fathom screen with either Grab (OS X) or Print Screen (Windows) and use the "Add an Image" tool (before the camera icon) to import it. @: Message 116: To whole message

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Bill, 15:42 (15.06): Beth, after you draw a screenshot rectangle around something, you have to click somewhere in the whiteboard. Have you done that? @: Message 116: To whole message

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Bill, 15:43 (15.06): Steve, I have an answer to the question you asked in your email. about how to compare values from the Web data with those given in the MaunaShort Fathom document.

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steve, 15:51 (15.06): thanks. I am here @: Message 121: To whole message

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Bill, 15:45 (15.06): Here's the graph that shows both sets of points _very_ close together. @:

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Bill, 15:45 (15.06): Beth, since I have your Fathom document, should I capture something from it?

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steve, 15:52 (15.06): so each point there is actually two points?

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Bill, 15:47 (15.06): Yes, here is a "blowup" of and area of the graph. @:

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cynthia, 15:54 (15.06): Is there a way to share the question being discussed?

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steve, 15:54 (15.06): and this shows that the difference is consistent between the two? @: Message 126: To whole message

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Bill, 15:48 (15.06): Which discussion? @: Message 127: To whole message

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Beth, 15:56 (15.06): Thanks. I wanted to show the main graph with the entire data set.

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Bill, 15:48 (15.06): Yes, it's an offset. I don't know why. @: Message 128: To whole message

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steve, 15:54 (15.06): I think she means my question about why the values differ between the data set in Fathom and on the web. @: Message 127: To whole message

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cynthia, 15:55 (15.06): Yes, that's right. Thanks for the interpretation, steve.

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Bill, 15:49 (15.06): Here's is Beth's graph. @:

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Beth, 15:57 (15.06): I can not create a CI for slope, but I tried a inference test for slope and Fathom found a t-value of 30.98.

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Beth, 15:57 (15.06): thanks

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Annie, 15:56 (15.06): I just pasted a graph that meets your challenge...cool! @: Message 110: To whole message

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Annie, 15:56 (15.06): This is it. @:

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Bill, 15:50 (15.06): What's cool? What do you see in it? @: Message 137: To whole message

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Annie, 15:57 (15.06): That obviously we were given a small section of the graph so that we'd think it might fit with a linear model. @: Message 139: To whole message

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Bill, 15:51 (15.06): I'm going to do a bit of cleanup so we can have space again.

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Bill, 15:51 (15.06): No, I wasn't trying to manipulate your thoughts! :) @: Message 140: To whole message

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cynthia, 15:58 (15.06): Annie, would you explain more about that?

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cynthia, 15:58 (15.06): Where is the graph. Could you link it?

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Annie, 15:58 (15.06): We can always scroll back using the lefthand scroll bar if we need to see old stuff on the whiteboard. It keeps a history. So Bill, you oculd delete stuff, far as I know. It will remain in the history. @: Message 141: To whole message

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Annie, 15:59 (15.06): The graph is here, Cynthia. At least for now! @:

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Bill, 15:53 (15.06): Sorry, I moved it. @: Message 146: raph is here, Cynthia. At least

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Craig, 15:57 (15.06): joins the room

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Bill, 15:56 (15.06): We're about half way through the session. I propose we take a moment to checkin with each other about how it's going. Could everyone just write something about what this is like for you? Include thoughts about the second hour.

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Annie, 16:02 (15.06): ignoring the sine-nature of the graph, it looks more like a chunk of a parabola than of a line, when you see all of this data. @: Message 143: To whole message

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David in DC, 16:00 (15.06): joins the room

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ihor, 16:05 (15.06): I unfortunately dont have Fathom up and running. I'm working from a spreadsheet. I assume CO2 function came from the plots along the sine curve. Is that right?

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Annie, 16:05 (15.06): Ihor, I came up with that by plotting the function a*sin(bx) + (the least squares lines), and messed with sliders for a and b until it seemed right (and then figured out that b is 2pi...duh). @: Message 152: To whole message

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Beth, 16:07 (15.06): I thought I was a good mulitasker, but aparently not. I just not started to follow everyone.

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Annie, 16:05 (15.06): You can plot a function on a graph. (We've almost exhausted my Fathom knowledge, all gleaned from the resources Bill suggested). @: Message 153: To whole message

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Craig, 16:01 (15.06): leaves the room

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David in DC, 16:06 (15.06): Hi All. I finally got everything installed have a few minutes to join in.

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Bill, 16:00 (15.06): @: Message 149: To whole message

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ihor, 16:08 (15.06): Annie, it appears to be a pretty good approximation.

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cynthia, 16:07 (15.06): I'm enjoying trying to capture bits from all conversations...

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ihor, 16:08 (15.06): I'm basing my birthday prediction on your function. :-)

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Annie, 16:07 (15.06): It's quite nice for that one little chunk of the data we were given in the "short" document! @: Message 159: To whole message

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Bill, 16:01 (15.06): For me as facilitator, it's pretty intense, but fun. The hardest part is not being able to "see" people to gauge interest and figure out where to go next. @: Message 149: To whole message

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ihor, 16:09 (15.06): Ihor smiles.

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cynthia, 16:08 (15.06): you're doing great. roll on.

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Annie, 16:08 (15.06): (Disclaimer: Riz helped me with the math - I knew I needed to add somethign to get it to "tilt", and he explained it was the line of best fit.) @: Message 162: To whole message

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David in DC, 16:08 (15.06): The function appears more like a composition than a sum.

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David in DC, 16:09 (15.06): But, Annie's rotated sine curve looks good.

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Bill, 16:03 (15.06): Why a composition? @: Message 167: To whole message

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Craig, 16:07 (15.06): joins the room

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Bill, 16:04 (15.06): Here is a simple regression model. Note that, along with your predicted value, you get a confidence interval. @:

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cynthia, 16:11 (15.06): so bill, you know we want you to show us how the technology does that

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David in DC, 16:11 (15.06): I would have tried to embed the sine inside the linear transformation or taken the data and extrapolated it out far enough by a transformation of the data. Sort of the brute force approach.

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Annie, 16:11 (15.06): Fair enough, but now you're venturing into territory for which I need to learn more math, instead of just more fathom! @: Message 171: To whole message

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Beth, 16:14 (15.06): cool. Bill how did you do that?

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Bill, 16:06 (15.06): Challenge: Show a residual plot of your model against the data. (Hint, see the Graph menu.)

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Bill, 16:07 (15.06): The crystal ball tool in Fathom allows you to make either simple regression or multiple regression models. @: Message 175: To whole message

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Bethany, 16:13 (15.06): crystal ball tool?? not familiar with that one @:

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Bill, 16:07 (15.06): Cynthia, do you mean the underlying mathematics or the interface? @: Message 172: To whole message

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Bill, 16:07 (15.06): Do you have Fathom 2 or Fathom 1? @: Message 178: To whole message

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cynthia, 16:14 (15.06): Fathom 2.

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Bethany, 16:14 (15.06): fathom 2

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Annie, 16:15 (15.06): I assume that "your model" means I can't just do a residual plot in the graph, and there's something else I need to do. @: Message 176: To whole message

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Bill, 16:09 (15.06): Your model is your equation. A residual plot is something you can get when you have a scatter plot and an equation. @: Message 183: To whole message

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Bill, 16:10 (15.06): Then you should see a crystal ball in the tool shelf. @: Message 182: To whole message

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Annie, 16:16 (15.06): So if I just do residual plot on my graph, this is what I get. @:

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Craig, 16:14 (15.06): leaves the room

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Annie, 16:17 (15.06): You mean the thing labeled "model", right? @: Message 185: To whole message

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Annie, 16:17 (15.06): (they wouldn't let you label it crystal ball, eh?) @: Message 188: To whole message

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Bill, 16:11 (15.06): Now these are _very_ useful. When a model accounts for all of the pattern in the data. the leftover, the residual, should just be noise; i.e. normally distributed values. @: Message 186: To whole message

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Bill, 16:12 (15.06): Right. A model is kind of like a crystal ball because it allows you to make predictions. @: Message 188: To whole message

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Craig, 16:16 (15.06): joins the room

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Bill, 16:13 (15.06): Show us what the residuals look like for this one. I'll bet they are mostly noise. @:

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Bethany, 16:19 (15.06):

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Bethany, 16:19 (15.06): haha. I thought you were joking about the "crystal ball"

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Bill, 16:14 (15.06): What, me, attempt funniness? :) @: Message 195: To whole message

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Annie, 16:22 (15.06): So I've added that graph...not as useful, eh? @: Message 193: To whole message

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Annie, 16:22 (15.06): there it is. @:

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Bill, 16:17 (15.06): I did it, too. Actually, it _is_ useful, since it shows that for this portion of the data, linear plus sine does a _good_ job of modeling. And in your graph, you can detect the non-sinusoidal part, too, more easily than in the upper graph. @:

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Bill, 16:18 (15.06): This is from Beth's solution, BTW. @:

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Beth, 16:27 (15.06): Did you send us the rest of the data after 1997?

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cynthia, 16:26 (15.06): What would the residuals look like if linear plus sine didn't do a good job?

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Bill, 16:20 (15.06): There's a Fathom document with it called MaunaLoa2003. @: Message 201: To whole message

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Annie, 16:27 (15.06): It's referenced in the tPoW that we worked with. @: Message 203: To whole message

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cynthia, 16:27 (15.06): oh, i see they're all close to 0.

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Craig, 16:27 (15.06): You'd see a pattern... maybe larger residuals on one end, for example, or the residual graph curved @: Message 202: To whole message

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Bill, 16:21 (15.06): Annie's first residuals plot shows residuals in the situation the data don't fit the model. @: Message 202: To whole message

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cynthia, 16:27 (15.06): thanks...

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Annie, 16:28 (15.06): Beth's is more even than mine, meaning that her function is closer? @: Message 200: To whole message

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Bill, 16:22 (15.06): Annie mentioned that with all the data, it looks like a parabola plus sine would be better than linear plus sine. Thoughts about that?

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Beth, 16:31 (15.06): What about exponential

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Bill, 16:23 (15.06): Yes! And you could try adjusting the parameters to see the effect that has on the residuals. @: Message 209: To whole message

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Annie, 16:29 (15.06): Well, yea, it could be that too :-) @: Message 211: To whole message

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Annie, 16:30 (15.06): I guess I'll go drag a slider! @: Message 212: To whole message

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Craig, 16:30 (15.06): Nature doesn't know parabolas from anything. The law in Statistics appears to be, "if it feels good, do it." I would try exponential (in fact, an exponential regression is easier to obtain than a quadratic one). @: Message 210: parabola

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Beth, 16:32 (15.06): Can I try to log the CO2s it see if it is an exponential.

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Annie, 16:31 (15.06): Oh, now mine is better - that helps a lot! Much like moving a movable line while watching the sum of the areas of the squares change. @: Message 212: To whole message

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Bill, 16:25 (15.06): I disagree. I think the law is to keep the model simple except if you have some contextual reason to make it more complicated. @: Message 215: The law in Statistics appears to be, "if it feels good, do it."

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Bill, 16:26 (15.06): Speaking of sum of squares, did anyone try showing these with the linear plus sine equation selected? @: Message 217: To whole message

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David in DC, 16:32 (15.06): Speaking of draging, I'm doing that to passing NSF staffers to show them this discussion. They think it's very cool!

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Craig, 16:33 (15.06): @: Message 218: keep the model simple

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Craig, 16:34 (15.06): I agree... my point was that if linear fits well enough, use linear; if something else fits better, use something else. @: Message 221: To whole message

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Bill, 16:28 (15.06): Here's a portion of the graph you get. @:

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Bill, 16:30 (15.06): Actually, this one's clearer. @:

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Craig, 16:38 (15.06): This graph is really cool. I was intrigued by something you showed/said earlier about interval estimates for the birthday thing. I'm new to Fathom; how does the "crystal ball" work? I say (using the whiteboard history feature) a "models" window... how do you get non-linear models included?

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Bethany, 16:38 (15.06): but I've heard that comparing different models is really difficult. Isn't a function that contains more terms always have the potential to fit better than something that doesn't? @: Message 222: To whole message

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Craig, 16:40 (15.06): You can come up with something AWFUL that fits very well. Keeping models simple is probably best... does nature really think in 17th degree polynomials, or is something simpler with a little random noise better? This is always a matter of contention! @: Message 226: potential to fit better

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Bill, 16:34 (15.06): Do something to the predictor, like square it, or take the log, and then do a linear fit with that. You can even do polynomial regression using the multiple regression model. @: Message 225: To whole message

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Craig, 16:42 (15.06): OK, so how do you get the SE(residuals) on which to base confidence intervals? @: Message 228: To whole message

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Bill, 16:36 (15.06): Question for all: How does this tPoW fit into your teaching of mathematics and/or statistics?

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steve, 16:43 (15.06): David, one neat connection for NSF is that you have several different research projects from NSF represented here: Math Tools, Virtual Math Teams (which brings us ConcertChat) and who knows what others from Bill and other folks. @: Message 220: To whole message

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Craig, 16:44 (15.06): I see lots of ways for my Stats class! I might even visit at several times during the year... when we do regressions early on, then again when we do some of the inferential stuff.

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Beth, 16:47 (15.06): My precalc class would love this. They woudl be able to find various models and discuss the strengths and weakness of their different models.

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David in DC, 16:45 (15.06): Steve, I know that. I arranged for all the elementary math presidential awardees to receive a copy of Tinkerplots this past April. Also funded by NSF.

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ihor, 16:47 (15.06): Bill, I work with middle school teachers. How does Tinkerplots compare with Fathom? @: Message 199: I did it, too. Actually, it _is_ useful, since it shows that for this portion of the data, linear plus sine does a _good_ job of modeling. And in your graph, you can detect the non-sinusoidal part, too, more easily than in the upper graph.

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Craig, 16:46 (15.06): I have actually used this data set with precalculus and even Algebra 2 students, with some success (of course, we didn't do some of the more powersul statistical analysis possible...) @: Message 233: precalc

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Bill, 16:40 (15.06): The multiple regression model gives you these, but I don't know how you would transform them back to the original attributes. @: Message 229: To whole message

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Bill, 16:41 (15.06): Tinkerplots is designed for middle school. It focuses on exploring representations for data. You never get a menu that says histogram or boxplot. If you haven't seen Tinkerplots, download an Instructors Evaluation edition. @: Message 235: To whole message

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Beth, 16:50 (15.06): 10^(1.501(log(year)-2.634.5+3sin(2 pi log(year)

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ihor, 16:50 (15.06): I have the evaluation software. Am now motivated to give it a better look. Thanks. Always a pleasure watching you work with data!

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Bill, 16:43 (15.06): Yes, I think it's a natural for precalc. Advanced algebra? What about bringing in a science teacher? @: Message 233: To whole message

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Bill, 16:43 (15.06): Whoa! Explain please! @: Message 239: To whole message

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Beth, 16:51 (15.06): sorry wrong answer I pushed enter to quickly

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David in DC, 16:50 (15.06): The science analyist next door to me is a physics teacher. She thinks this is very cool!

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Bill, 16:44 (15.06): Say more. What _about_ it is cool? The whiteboard? the problem? the interaction? @: Message 244: To whole message

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David in DC, 16:50 (15.06): all of it

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David in DC, 16:51 (15.06): she has students she likes to work with in Africa. This will be perfect.

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cynthia, 16:51 (15.06): The data set is so rich also...

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David in DC, 16:51 (15.06): She is headed there in a week for two weeks of work.

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Bill, 16:45 (15.06): I think the data set is a good example of _unexpected_ richness. After all, it's basically just two attributes. @: Message 248: To whole message

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Craig, 16:52 (15.06): This data set, as well as many at the Quantitative Environmental Literacy Project site (search Math Tools for Environmental) lend themselves extremely well to interdisciplinary work. I don't think QELP data sets are available in Fathom format (they come in Excel, comma delimited, and maybe others), but Fathom could handle them. @: Message 241: To whole message

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Bill, 16:46 (15.06): FYI: Copy from Excel and paste into an empty collection in Fathom. (Or, less conveniently, import a tab-delimited text file.) @: Message 251: To whole message

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cynthia, 16:54 (15.06): So are co2 levels around the world consistent with this model?

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David in DC, 16:54 (15.06): One of the NSF POs said that this data was one of the first to show global warming.

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Bill, 16:48 (15.06): One last plea for meta-comments: What about this session worked for you and why? What do you wish we did more of? Less of? Please, everyone, take a moment to comment.

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Gene, 16:54 (15.06): This has been great to eavesdrop on, Bill and all. Wish I'd had the time to be actively involved. Outta here.

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Annie, 16:55 (15.06): I liked that you managed the whiteboard, though probably we could do some deleting. If Johann is paying attention, what happens if you reference a picture that gets deleted - if you click on that message, does it refer to an earlier iteration of the whiteboard? @: Message 255: To whole message

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cynthia, 16:56 (15.06): I've loved it. Even though I was ignorant, but intrigued.

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Beth, 16:58 (15.06): THis was wonderful to have the furtunate opportunity to chat with others about one specific, rich data set. It was fun. Thank you all

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Bethany, 16:56 (15.06): I like the activity and the rich responses. I feel like my limited knowledge of statistics though was, well, limiting.

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Bill, 16:50 (15.06): Say more, please, about what you loved about it. @: Message 258: To whole message

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steve, 16:57 (15.06): I found it stimulating for a novice with both the software and the mathematics. Gave me some starting points and people to go back to for both.

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Johann, 16:57 (15.06): The picture is still contained in the histo\ry @: Message 257: To whole message

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Craig, 16:57 (15.06): I wish I could have been here from the beginning. I'm still feeling my way around in Fathom... for my purposes, more "how to use Fathom to do ___," since I have worked with this data set and these statistical concepts before. Watching how people think about things, and the interplay, was really a good learning experience for me. I think that this type of interface can be beneficial for students, too (as I observed with the VMT project a few weeks abo). @: Message 255: To whole message

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David in DC, 16:57 (15.06): I like the idea of showing work in real time and discussing. Gives people from long distances the chance for interaction they could otherwise not have. Immediate feedback is great!

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steve, 16:58 (15.06): I liked the structure of having done the activity and then being able to be prodded to think more.

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Johann, 16:58 (15.06): If you want to go back in time to that point when the reference was made, just klick on the arrow in the reference

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Bethany, 16:58 (15.06): It may have been nice to have a dictionary or overview available of some of the concepts that were going to be discussed (regression, multiple regression, confidence intervals, etc)

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David in DC, 16:59 (15.06): I took a snapshot of a couple screens to share with some other NSF folks.

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cynthia, 16:59 (15.06): I like doing the math, asking questions, trying to figure it all out at the same time, the conversations, the technologies. Kind of like untangling a skein of yarn..

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Bill, 16:53 (15.06): I found attempting to facilitate exhilarating. The biggest puzzle for me was when to introduce a new subject. There were times (e.g. around classroom use) when I was tempted to push a bit harder, but didn't.

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David in DC, 16:59 (15.06): Thanks for this event.

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Annie, 17:00 (15.06): Just so you know, David and others, the entire transcript will be linked from the fathom.html page in the toolfest site, so you can point them to the whole thing, if you think any of htem would be interested. @: Message 269: To whole message

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Gene, 16:55 (15.06): leaves the room

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cynthia, 17:00 (15.06): bravo, Bill applause, it was really fun

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Annie, 17:00 (15.06): Possibly, but that might have made some of us non-stats people feel like we had to actually learn more stuff. I liked playing with the software and trying to use math I already knew (even though I asked Riz for help with the one thing). @: Message 268: To whole message

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Bethany, 17:00 (15.06): gotta go folks. Thanks for the great experience!

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David in DC, 17:00 (15.06): Great. I would like that. Send me the link at dkapolka@nsf.gov

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Beth, 17:03 (15.06):

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Annie, 17:01 (15.06): You can find it right from the schedule for this toolfest, okay? I'll add the link in there as soon as we've got it ready to view (within minutes of us ending). @: Message 278: To whole message

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Beth, 17:03 (15.06): Thank you.

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David in DC, 17:02 (15.06): That'll work.

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Bill, 16:56 (15.06): Thank you all for your active and interesting participation. I enjoyed it! And kudos to all of you who did the assignment beforehand. It made a _big_ positive difference.

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Annie, 17:02 (15.06): Thanks very much, Bill. As we saw with Cabri 3D on Monday, having had a littel bit of common experience beforehand allowed us to jump right into real discussion.

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Bill, 16:57 (15.06): Bye

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Bethany, 17:00 (15.06): leaves the room

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Beth, 17:00 (15.06): leaves the room

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David in DC, 17:03 (15.06): Bye Bill

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Annie, 17:03 (15.06): Thanks, everyone!

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Bill, 17:00 (15.06): leaves the room